SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Retirement Navigator, the podcast for adults 55 and above who are ready to make the next chapter their best one. I am your host Kwame Kwade, co-founder of Next Chapter Media and adjunct professor of finance at Johns Hopkins Kerry Business School. For many people, retirement no longer looks like a hard stop at 65. More adults are asking bigger questions about work, purpose, financial security, and what the next chapter of life should actually look like. Today's guest has spent years helping people navigate exactly these questions. Joining us today is Kerry Hannan. She is a leading expert on personal finance, careers, and retirement and currently serves as a senior columnist and on-air expert for Yahoo Finance. She is the best-selling author of more than a dozen books, including Retirement Bites, a Gen X Guide to Securing Your Financial Future and In Control at 50 Plus, How to Succeed in the New World of Work. Her work has appeared in major outlets like the New York Times, Forbes, Money, The Wall Street Journal, and USA Today, where she's become a trusted voice on retirement, career reinvention, and financial confidence later in life. Today she joins us to share practical insights on navigating work, money, and purpose in the years ahead. Thank you for being here, Carrie. Hello, Carrie. Welcome to the Retirement Navigator Podcast. I am excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Thank you so much. I appreciate the invitation.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

So I know that you focus on, you know, a lot about personal finance from the lens of you know retirement, uh, from the lens of the you know the longevity um economy that's happening. I have read a lot of your writing. And so I wanted to start this podcast episode right off the bat by talking about the longevity economy. What does that mean? And what should be people be paying attention to when it comes to planning their careers to function in this new economy that you call the longevity economy?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, that that's a great question because it's really buzzy these days. People, it's just finally coming to the top of people's awareness that in fact, um, you know, lifespans have increased. I mean, it's been gradual, but you know, honestly, if someone were to step out of the workplace at 65, they could very easily have three decades ahead of them uh in order to finance their cost of living. And many people, to be honest with you, haven't saved adequately for three decades of living expenses without having some income coming in in some form, even as a safety net. So the the way, given that, that we are living longer, healthier lives, and opens this whole opportunity for people to reimagine how their working lives might work into this new dynamic. How can I shift and pivot and stay current and relevant in order to continue to contribute for pay uh in many ways? Maybe you don't need the pay and you want to just be part of giving back in some way. But I focus a lot on the need for continued income, and I think that's important. And that feeds back into the entire economy. And it's whether you're starting a business uh in your second act that you're employing people, you're creating goods and services. I mean, it's just this ripple-down effect that is amazingly productive for the economy on every level. People who continue to earn at later ages, guess what? They're spending. They're spending in the economy, they're going on trips, they're buying clothes, they're, you know, they're going out to dinner, they're going, you know, there's a whole richness to it in the fabric of our lives that is critical. And for me, um, the idea of work, I never think of work as a bad word. I think work is something that stimulates us mentally, physically, and it creates community and engagement in a way that as we age, it's super important to have those elements.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Absolutely. And one thing you said that I I want to follow up on is this idea. I know that our retirement benefits are, you know, set at you know, age 62. You can start claiming social security. The full retirement age is at age 66 or 67 for some people. So I think we've been conditioned that that is a sunset moment, you know, that is a moment to slow down when in reality the data is showing, as you mentioned, that we're living longer and retirement as even even when social security was designed, it wasn't designed for a 30, 35-year retirement. And so we have to make different financial choices. But one of the things I wanted you to point out and talk about more is the career opportunity. You know what I mean? In terms of like how somebody can start a whole new career at that stage of their life and still fulfill some of those things that they wish they had done, or you know, they regretted they couldn't do. Can you speak to what you're seeing in terms of the second act?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, I I so love that. I'm glad you pointed that out because this is a period in life that can be so amazingly productive and liberating and empowering on so many levels, because um it gives you an opportunity, as you mentioned, to maybe pursue a path that you had to set aside. You know, when you get to this point in your life, and I'm saying let's say 55 of maybe, or even 50 enough, where you've kind of checked the boxes, you've accomplished a lot of the things that you set out to do uh with your primary career. And maybe you've launched, maybe you've had children and they're launched into their lives, you've paid down your mortgage to a certain extent, maybe completely. So some of the big financial obligations are out of the way too. So this is your opportunity to really say, okay, let me just pause for a minute and say, yeah, what is really important to me? What matters to me? And often it's not having a big fancy title or even a big salary. It's often about just taking a path that's gonna bring you joy. And that takes a couple of, you know, it doesn't happen overnight. And a lot of people you say, oh, you know, well, what are you really passionate about? And they kind of look at you frozen because they're like, I don't know, you know, and they're afraid if they start peeling it back, they're not gonna find anything. But the truth is it's there. You have to do that inner soul searching. But there are some, I spent a lot of time, I did a book a while back um called What's Next? Follow your passion and find your dream job. And it, I I went around the country for three years and I interviewed people who had done one thing for 20 or 30 years and shifted to something completely different. And I gotta tell you, it's not that I wanted to do exactly what they did, but I was so inspired by their journeys and their courage and how they made it work that I was able to, although they were very different paths. I was able to come up with sort of some core steps that they took in order to make that transition. And it's really important to realize that it's a process, it doesn't just happen. Like you might want to start at 60, thinking about what you want to do at 65 or 55 at 60. Um, maybe you get laid off and you're kind of forced into making that decision, or you know, you have an early retirement. But in many cases, you do have the opportunity to really think and be um very intentional about how to start it. And before we maybe you want to know some of the steps, but before we go to tell people, I think it's important that your listeners know and your viewers know that there's no one right way to do this. There's no there's no playbook ahead. I mean, you're gonna create your own path, and that's kind of the fear that's like scary, but it also gets the adrenaline going and gets a creative process going.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Right, right. One thing you said about the fact that some of us will peel the onion and realize that there's nothing there, you know. What am I passionate about? I have a friend who is exactly in that position, has built a great business, and it's like, what do I do next? You know, how do people begin to think about that? You mentioned the steps based on your book um and the travel that you did and talk, you know, talking to all those people who've made that successful transition into a new career. What are some of the steps we can take to begin to think about that?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, I think the very first thing, and it's super easy, is to sit down, let yourself be still and quiet, and and start that inner exploration. And and I like writing things down on paper, but maybe you do it on the computer, but you kind of try once you start to let things be quiet and think about what really does bring you joy, what are the things in your work, in your working lives that you really felt good about, that you think you're good at, or that people you know have told you you're good at, even if you just take it for granted, and and start keeping a uh writing these things down. What are the things that um you like we talked about that you didn't get to do when you were younger, that you had to set aside because maybe they weren't gonna have the earning um juice that you needed at that time? So you do that inner thing, and what kind of work do you what would you want to be working part-time, full-time? Do you want to start your own business? What do you see yourself as an entrepreneur? Are you a self-starter? How or is it a nonprofit you want to work with? Do you want to give back, but you want to be paid for your skills as well? So, you know, it it does this is a you know really something that you need to take the time to to explore within yourself. So I encourage people to do that inner soul search. The second thing is they want to get financially fit. And if, and so it's got Carrie's Fitness Program. It's like, I like the idea that you can get financially fit, which means the horrible task of doing a budget. You know, what do you what do you have coming in? What do you have coming out? Well, how can you get lean-in means so that that you can make, you know, pay down some high credit card debt? That doesn't happen overnight. Here's the thing is once you have a sense of being financially fit, you know, money is the biggest stumbling block to making a career transition because you're probably not going to earn what you did in your previous career, at least at first. Or if you're starting your own business, you're gonna be need startup cash and you're gonna be maybe just putting money back into that instead of paying yourself. So there are many reasons why financial fitness is super important, and you know, uh it does take time, but and you may even move somewhere where the cost of living is less. But that's a super important thing because that also tells you when you make a career transition, what salary do I need? What kind of income do I need in order to meet my month my monthly needs? How and that helps make those choices and also opens, if you do get fit, it opens the playing field. It gives you, it's so liberating because you can take opportunities that maybe don't pay what you had previously made, but you go, ah, this is gonna work for me, and and so forth. Second thing, physical fitness. And I don't mean you have to bench press a lot or run fast miles, but when you're physically fit, you have energy, you have that candy spirit, you're optimistic, you're positive. People want to work with you, people want you on their team. This is very helpful in fighting ageism in the workplace. They don't know what it is, it's not dyeing your hair, it's not getting Botox, nothing wrong with those things. If it makes you feel positive and good about yourself, but by all means, physical fitness, eating with an idea, nutrition, that's really gonna really take you that next level. And the third thing is we kind of alluded to at first is the soul search. This, you know, having that sort of spiritual fitness, which is not religion, this is somewhere where you can go to be quiet because career transition at this stage of your life is stressful. So if you can find a way to do mindful meditation, yoga, I walk my dog, whatever, you probably have something you love to do, something where you get away from it all and just can let things settle down.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So, no, I I love this framework. It's very easy to remember, you know, do that spirit, uh, you know, spiritual fitness, uh soul searching work to make sure that you are digging deep to understand what what you really want at this stage, you know. Um, and then obviously financial fitness, which you you you're correct to mention, drives a lot of these decisions because you know, a lot of us need to figure that out to see what is possible, you know, but you have to do the work, and then obviously uh physical fitness, and that is something the third part, the physical fitness. I want to come back to that because I think that you know we're talking about longevity and the fact that that is so critical. There's so much research that has come out that shows all the um data that point to the fact that you know physical fitness is important at this stage because that is a driver, a big driver of longevity. So I want to come back to that too later. But the next thing I want to bring you to um is uh people who are currently in the workforce, you know, and they want to continue to they love what they do, you know, they're probably mid-50s, late fifties, mid-sixties, but they still want to continue going. And they, you know, they don't want to slow down, but all all of a sudden they are seeing signs of you know, workplace, ageism, discriminations, or just the fact that they are not being assigned, you know, the work that they feel like their experience and and and expect expertise demand. What are you seeing in the in in that? And then what would you advise them on how to navigate if you want to continue to do what you're doing, you love what you're doing, you want to do it for a long time. How do you navigate a workplace that is looking at you differently?

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Well, you're you know, you're correct. And it is, you know, it's not um across the board. I mean, there are some workplaces that are already hip to all of this, and they understand that the truth is with demographics, there's not as many younger workers coming on board as there are older workers who choose to stay on the job longer because of longevity and the realization that maybe they haven't saved adequately to live as many years in retirement. So, yeah, there are some great things you can do, and and the most important thing is to keep your skills up to date. You absolutely have to be relevant in the workplace. You cannot be complacent. You can't say, hey, you know, I I've got this, I've been doing it for a long time. Trust me, I've got it. No, everything is changing so quickly. The technology, all of those pieces, it's rapidly evolving. So you need to continue to learn at all stages. And whether that's raising your hand and saying, hey, I want to be part of this workplace development program. I know that so-and-so is going, so-and-so is going. I'd like to be part of that. Be brave, step it up and say, I'm interested. I'm curious to learn more about that. People love that word curious because it shows you want to continue to learn. A lot of times, employers or hiring or your manager thinks, you know, you don't want to push forward and you're okay. No, you want to raise your hand for that new assignment. You want to be considered. And if you don't, you have to be a little squeaky here. You cannot sit back. If you really truly want to be part of that fabric of that workplace, you've got to be part of the team and on top of shifting, be willing to change new ways of doing things and and not make a fuss over it. And learning, I gotta just say that one piece is so critical at every stage of our career. But as an older worker in the workplace, when you learn new things, your whole brain changes. It can be anything, but it's so um, it builds resilience, it builds um value in the workplace. There's so many good things about it that it's important. You don't have to do it through your workplace. Go home. There's so many online learning opportunities today, um, or even listening to podcasts like yours. Here's the thing: engage, engage your mind and continue to learn. So it's volunteering for new opportunities, constantly reaching out and being willing to um work with younger people in a way that, and I know you will that this is important to you as well, the multi-generational workplace, but it's important to embrace it and not um and go in with the right mindset. And I'll give a quick example. When I started my recent position uh at Yahoo Finance as a senior columnist, the the woman who hired me and was my manager was 20 years younger than me. And it was without a doubt the best thing that ever happened in my career. I love working with her so much because it just it was subjects that I've written about for years that I've I've covered, written books about, but she saw it from a different lens. She had the she brought this energy and enthusiasm to it that I had started to be a little jaded about. And it just revitalized my whole approach to my work. So it's a small example, and yes, there was new technology I had to learn, but I didn't um I didn't make a fuss over it. I didn't even mention it. I just I just went and learned how to do it. You know, so I just say everyone, you know, get over yourself. Just stay in the workplace, just go with it and and show how, and the most thing employers want to know is that you really do love your job and you believe in their mission. And if you don't, then then that's a time to look at yourself and say, maybe this isn't the right place for me.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Right, right. And the elephant in the room these days is AI. And we are hearing a lot about it, it's changing things rapidly. Um I was one of those people that in the past I was a late technology adopter. I want everybody to try something, and then I when the eye on the kinks out, and then I would, you know. But this time around, when it came to AI, I said no, I am gonna be at the forefront and find out and figure out as an entrepreneur how can AI help me do my work better, but also how can it help me serve my clients better? You know what? So I think that I want you to talk about AI for a minute. How are you seeing it shape the workforce, and how can older adults embrace AI in a way that you know is comfortable for them, but also sparks the curiosity that you talked about?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, I mean, I really um I think this is a great question because there is this fear around anything that's new. And everything we read is AI is taking jobs, AI is taking over the world. Okay, great, maybe it is. All I'm saying is you're probably not going to change the trajectory of where uh this technology is taking us, but you can learn how to use it. And like you said, to make your work easier or perhaps better. Um, and um, you know, simple things. So I encourage older workers, particularly, you know, just start playing around with it. Go on Chat GPT, go on Claude, go on some of these um platforms and and have some fun with it. Um, for example, like for in my case, for example, very simple example. I am terrible at writing headlines, right? I I just I'm not good at it. I'm very good at at condensing and organizing and and explaining the subject to somebody uh in a conversational tone. But the headline to get so I have started to go to Chat GPT and I'll type in uh a column on such and such a topic. What would be a great headline? And they'll give me some like like in a second, about you know, 15 possible ones. And I look at them and I go, hmm, yeah, that's kind of good. And maybe if I don't use the specific one, I tweak it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

But it's got the create, it's gotten my creative juices going. So now I can think a little clearer. Okay, yeah, I get it now. So in that simple way, the other thing I want to tell people is your audience is that I recently did a column uh about what hiring managers in particular are saying about um candidates for jobs today, and they say that they're really having trouble fine filling positions, not because there aren't enough candidates, but they're not enough candidates who have what they call power skills. These are not adept, you're you're being so adept with AI and technology. This is communication. Can you look somebody in the eye? Can you write clearly? Can you uh give a presentation? Are you a good storyteller? If you think about it, almost every great CEO is an amazing storyteller. Yeah, you have got to tell your story. You have got these are skills that we have with this experience in the workplace. And in addition to that, you're a strategic thinker, you've solved problems throughout your career. AR does have a great ability to do many things, but it has not shown yet that it can make these kind of human. Decisions, these strategic decisions that are very unique to this company, this situation, this challenge. And I think this is a super opportunity for older workers to pair those two together and say, Yeah, I'm having some fun exploring, and I want to learn how I can use this in my work, but I also want to continue to augment these skills that I've honed over decades.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

I am so glad you mentioned that. There was one thing I read recently, I think it was a podcast interview that you did that talked about, you know, how why your current skills might be the key to an entirely new career. So I, you know, I think that oftentimes you know um you know people are looking at what they don't have and and and and that might be limiting them and downplaying the core skills that experience, expertise, and being the workforce for a little bit has given you. So can you talk a little bit more about the fact that you know if somebody's looking for a career shift, or if somebody has lost a job and they're trying to make a re-entry, or if even if if you've been away for a little bit and you want to get back in, that you have skills that the you know the younger generation doesn't have uh based on just your experience and expertise that you need to lean into and and highlight because I think that there is this fear that oh, I've been out for a long time, or they don't they don't need my skills, they want a fresher eyes. Can you speak a little bit to that?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, and I think it kind of goes back when we're talking about the soul searching piece of it. You need to learn to really recognize what you're good at and and own it. Just own it, don't don't be humble. This is not the time to be humble. This is what you're really good at, and then you tell if you have the opportunity in your resume, or if you get a person uh one-on-one interview, and this can even be within your current organization, or if you've stepped out and you're trying to get back in, you have to tell, and I call it your car story, which is the challenge, action, result. You need to quantify it, you need to show people or tell people, learn how to communicate this in a really uh hopefully a fun, sharp, snappy presentation that shows the challenge you faced, the action you took, and the result. You know, you brought in sales six months ahead of time, you you know, you created uh a new product uh in you know, three months ahead of schedule. You know, these whatever it is, put a number on it if you can. People love numbers. So if you can somehow quantify it, it's great. But but this is you who you are, this is why you are a problem solver. This is why you get things done, and you need to be able to quickly tell those stories in that car format. That's important. You need to identify your skills early and often and put them up high in a discussion with anyone with a resume. Um, it's it people don't care about titles or they don't even understand them half the time by positions or what you did 15 years ago. They want to know what you can do right now, what you've done the last couple of years perhaps. And if you've been out of the workplace, you need to go, okay, so cool. I was out. What did I do? Uh was I volunteering, you know, doing this, or was I caregiving? All of these things have skills. You know, when I was a caregiver for my mom, I was a project manager, I was a financial manager, I was uh a patient advocate, I did a lot of jobs. And so I think everyone has to recognize that hey, yeah, I can do a lot of different things. So when you are away from the workplace, you have to have a story for what you did, even if it's just traveling. Um, it nothing is too small to discuss what skills it uh it added to your your uh your kit, so to speak. And um, the other thing I should note here if you've been out of the workplace and you want to get back in, it's really important to talk to people in your network who are doing jobs that you think are really cool that you would like to do, or for a company that you really put, or a nonprofit whose mission just speaks to you. Narrow it down. Don't go broad and start throwing things all over the map. You need to have a clear path of what you're thinking. Once you have your network and you tell everybody you're interested in learning more, then you do those informational interviews with folks that everyone likes to talk about themselves and their jobs. You're not asking them for a job, you're just getting ideas, and who should I talk to? Who else should I talk to? So those little pieces all come together, you weave together this idea of it that helps you get along this path. And I think people often also forget their hobbies, okay? You could get your skills and your hobbies. You could, and frankly, if you start talking about them, you light up, and everybody wants to hear about them. Um, there's a gentleman who I I interviewed for for a book of mine, and he he could he lost his job in his late 50s, he couldn't get back in as a salesperson. Um, he was very frustrated, and he was a terrific sailor. He loves to sail. So he went to Longbow Key in Florida and got a job teaching sailing for this for the spring season because he just got sick of sending out resumes. So he's out there uh uh you know teaching this lots of people how to sail. One time he's out there with the CEO of a company from New Jersey who says, Hey, um you know, he's the guy's like, Hey, you know, I'm not this isn't my real job. I'm looking for a job. I'm just this is what I do. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, well, we have a job open at my company, and uh he's the CEO of this company. He goes, We're looking for a project manager. And this guy's like, Well, I could, I'm not a project manager, I have not one qualification to do that. And he goes, Wait one minute, you just showed me from sailing from point A to point B in this kind of weather, blah, blah, blah. And he went through all the skills this man had had demonstrated in his sailing lessons that would work in the position as a project manager where this guy had never dreamed that would be a job he would apply for.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

And he got it, right? Okay, he knew the CEO now because he worked with him, but he stayed there, he's been there for a couple years now. I like two years now, and so I'm just I it's a kind of just for people to reimagine like how's your hobby? Maybe, maybe how could that be a secret? I'm not saying do a job within that hobby necessarily, but it'll tell you something about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Right, right, right. And and you've highlighted a few things I I want to I want to point out, you know, the fact that you know, you talk about the sandwich generation a little bit, and the fact that, you know, a lot of people are caring for you know, aging parents and are also in the workforce themselves, and there's a lot of skills that new skills that come with that, you know. And and you talked about the fact that your hobbies can also bring you or you've acquired skills through your hobbies that may apply to a job situation, so do not discount that. And so basically, looking broadly at the skills that you've acquired, it doesn't necessarily have to have been through a job, and that out of the job are skills that we are acquiring that can also lend themselves back in the workforce. So I really, really, really like that. Um the next thing I want to talk about is about you know the the fact that a lot of people get into um a situation where they feel like they are tapped out where they are, they they they they want to retire, but they haven't saved enough for retirement because they're all of a sudden realizing that oh, you know, uh giving you know the retirement that they they they they may have not even planned for retirement and they all of a sudden sneaked up on them and now they are facing the possibility of okay, I'm getting this minuscule social security check, uh, and I'm staring at all these bills and all that. How do I think about the next 30 years? I need to work, you know, but also I haven't planned for this. What has been your experience about how people who all of a sudden come to a realization that, oh, retirement is here and I haven't planned for it, how do I deal with it?

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, that it's really true because it can sneak up on you, um, and whether by choice or not, you know, a lot of people do step out of the workplace uh because of a job loss uh or a health issue or caregiving, as you mentioned, that can be very demanding. The key to this transition is gonna be, and I'm a big believer if you can work with a financial advisor to kind of help you get a holistic picture of what you have, what your assets are. It's not all in retirement savings plans. And 50% of Americans don't even have an employer-provided retirement plan. So it's all of your assets, all of the things that you have, and then it's what your obligations are moving forward in terms of financial issues, and then you know, looking at, you know, what would you regret if you didn't get to do in this lifetime? You know, what are some things that you want to make sure you make time in your life to do? And a financial advisor, a good one, can it's not all about investing your money, it's about spending and saving and accomplishing goals and dreams. So if you can get someone who can get up on the balcony and look down at your situation and help you figure out, okay, how can I continue to earn? How much do I need to kind of get me through this next period of time? And again, it's gonna be a patchwork quilt. You're not gonna just jump, more than likely, and make this transition to continue to work longer than you may have expected to. Um, and it's just gonna be linear like your first part of your career was. It's you might do one thing for three years, you might do another thing uh for five, you might do a couple of things at the same time. There's no right or wrong way to do this, and you need to get over your ego on many levels. You need to just like let it go. Have some fun with your work, find things that you want to do, you want to engage in, but be willing, you know, say yes. And if you don't like it, you can walk away from it. No one's judging you on this, but don't be afraid to try work that you hadn't done in the past. So broaden your mind, I guess is the big message here. Look at all kinds of different opportunities that maybe wouldn't have been part of it. But even if you don't want to work with a financial advisor or you're not in this position to work with a financial advisor, um, and I like the fee-only ones if you go that path, but um, run a retirement calculator. All the websites, like you know, AARP and Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, they all and T Row Price, they have these great retirement calculators. Study after study shows that people who actually sit down and use one of these online free calculations have a more successful uh financial um outlook. And for and it fits into this whole longevity theme. It gives you the idea of what's and once because what's happened is you've put those numbers down, you're doing it in the privacy of your own home, you're not sharing this to everybody, you're just figuring this out. And once you start seeing the picture, seeing the numbers, it helps you move forward to start making decisions to make work. How do you find the income that you need, the work that's going to work for you, and develop a plan? You need a plan, and you don't just, you know, just because retirements come up on your radar and all of a sudden, boom, that doesn't mean you're out of you still have runway ahead of you. There's still time to do this, but you need to stop right now. And also, going back to what I talked to you about before that budget thing that people roll their eyes at, at this stage in your life, you've probably had lifestyle creep. You're probably spending on things you don't even realize you're spending on. So it's really important, especially right now, to look at where is your money going. And this is just take a couple of months and look at how am I spending my money? Do it, do I value that anymore? Is that a priority? Because you might find it's easy ways to trim back and get back in a position where you can have more financial success.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Absolutely. Uh uh, and you mentioned you know, financial using a financial advisor, and a lot of people are intimidated by that because when they think about financial advisor, they think about I need to have a lot of money for them to speak to me. And and I I know that that is not true because there's different financial advisory models out there. So, can you dispel some of that? And do you have a specific recommendation of the kind of financial advisor that people should be working with? Number one, if they have the means to go there, or if they don't, are there any models out there they can tap into?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah, I think you're you're that's it it's really important to um do your homework. Uh if you want to work with a financial advisor, I like the fee-only advisors that have a CFP, which is a certified financial planner designation. They've taken a pretty rigorous uh coursework in order to get to this uh designation. They also um they that one of their standards is that they have fiduciary responsibility. So any decisions they make for you are in your best interest, not in their best interest. So this sounds like, of course, everyone will do that. Well, that's not the way the world works. So you want to find somebody who is is a you know has that fiduciary uh responsibility and who um has done a rigorous training. I like talking to people. The CFP board actually has a searchable website that you can find planners in your area, but you don't even need to work with someone in your town because you can have virtual meetings. It isn't imperative that you be side by side with them. Um also other the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors has another searchable database that you can even search by, you know, I'm a divorced woman or you know, whatever it is that can maybe characterize people who specialize in I'm a small business owner or whatever it might be that works for you. Those are two, there are other, there are plenty of other great ones out there, and I'm happy to provide some other opportunities. But another way is asking friends and family who they work with, who they trust, and then do your homework. And you want to identify, you know, have two or three you interview, and they should give you a free uh session with them to talk to them to make sure that you're on like you can talk. I mean, uh that you feel comfortable with them, but you don't feel like any question is too stupid to ask because they're there to educate you and they're not also they're there for your whole your whole life. I mean, they shouldn't just care about how you've invested your money. That is like a red flag.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. So I have three more questions and then we'll wrap up. Um, the first one, I want to talk about um remote work. I know you wrote a book about pyjama um jobs, and and I find that a lot of people when it comes to you know um the next career, I don't know whether people are, you know, based some of them is real because they have other obligations, they're probably caring for an agent parent or they're caring caring for an agent, you know, a spouse that has you know probably an illness or something, so that the mobility is an issue for whatever reason. And so they're looking at remote jobs and jobs they can do at home, and they're coming out blank. And so I wanted to make sure that I asked you this question since you wrote a whole book about it. What is your perspective on the the you know the current state of remote work? Where should people be looking? What are some of the paths that you've seen to be successful and any general advice you would give?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of work from home. I mean, that's what I do. And I I I love it. And especially at this stage of my life, you couldn't pay me to go into an office. There would be no salary that would be big enough for me. Um, I love having the autonomy, the control of my time, and all of you, anyone out there wants to work remotely, you know what I'm talking about. This is like you're grown-ups, you get your work done, you're productive. I mean, the numbers are there. Employers know that. I mean, especially coming out of the pandemic, this was, you know, your work from home, we used to be you have to beg to do it. Now it's it's it's not. Um, they they saw the results that people, you know, got things done. And it and it was uh really important to recognize that. In addition, then there was this, oh, now everyone's got to come back to the office. That's such a bunch of hype. Many companies have had people come back to the office, but the truth of the matter is it's a lot of noise. Most of it is hybrid, that you're working, you know, most of the time from home, you come in, you kind of split the time. If I was a younger worker, I would want to be in the office. I mean, I think that's super important when you're younger to build that network to understand how things get done, how be in the rooms to be, I mean, there it is important. But as you're more experienced, yes, that's so relevant. If you're starting with a new company, I think it's important to get FaceTime. So try like I go up to you know the office, you know, quarterly, maybe I try to stop in and spend a day or two. And I think that's really important to uh to not uh shut yourself down if you have the opportunity. Right with remote work, um, it's still alive and well and it's not going away. And especially um for this uh cohort of workers for us in this age range, I think the opportunities exist, whether it's consulting, whether it's you know, um it there's so many jobs where you can helicopter in and be the bookkeeper for a company to to do the social media for especially small businesses. It is huge super because they don't, or if you're an entrepreneur, you can use remote workers because you don't need that whole staff. You can hire these fabulous, and there's all sorts of job boards out there that really slice and dice all of it. You know, LinkedIn is pretty good about identifying uh jobs that are remote or hybrid, indeed, is a good job board, obviously a big one, but you can and even in within your particular industry, there's usually it's very clear to search for ones that are remote and ones that are hybrid or full fully in the office. And this is not going to go away, but and you just need maybe you have to you know push a little harder, and but and maybe initially you do need to spend a little more time in an office, but but frankly, I think if it you can prove them wrong at every turn that you can get it done.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

I I totally agree. And and that leads me to the next question, which is LinkedIn. I am a big I'm big about LinkedIn and and the value of it, staying visible. Um, when people are searching for you, they they the first, you know, number one, Google serves if your name is out there, Google will serve your LinkedIn page almost always first, unless you have a big personal brand. They will serve your LinkedIn first. People will click on your LinkedIn, they go there, and it's crickets and how that can affect you. Can you talk about just the fact about in the context of LinkedIn, making sure that you're putting yourself out there at minimum on LinkedIn and refreshing so that people know that you're part of the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Gosh, I I told I'm like so on your team here. I love LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is terrific. Not only do the opportunity to create like a living, breathing resume, who I am, why I why I love what I do, why this is what I want to do, this is what I like to volunteer doing. You can create, you can tell your story there in a way that no other platform allows you to. And trust me, if you're applying for almost any position, they're going right to that LinkedIn profile. They're gonna look to say, oh, what who does who knows this person? And that's what you should be doing. Like if you find out that's what's great, if you have a good LinkedIn property, if you have an opportunity to talk to someone at a company, you can find out pretty quickly who you might know in your network once you build out your network. Um, who you might know who knows somebody there. Because people get hired the old-fashioned way, no matter what anyone tells you, it's who it's who you know. Companies hire people they know or people they know know. It's always been this way, and it's really still as relevant and maybe more so than ever. So it's important to have that really, and you can change this up all the time. You know that you can throw up videos, you can put PowerPoint presentations if that's what you like to do. You can, you know, brag about yourself. You there's so many fun ways, but the biggest part, once you do all that fun stuff and you have the and you, you know, change it, then like you said, get engaged. I mean, put things up, post things, re comment on other experts in your field and things they've put up or people in your network. People love to know that somebody read what they put up and they appreciated it. And it's just a subtle human connection, and it's making that human connection is gonna take you to your next thing. And by doing that, um, you also can show off your own expertise, but but you also continue to uh build your network and you um I don't want to use the word flatter, but flatter kind of works in there because you build that's what relationship building is all about, and this is something that you can do every day.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Absolutely, absolutely. And my last question to you comes back to where we started, which is longevity. Um I I believe that you know you know living longer, but living well longer is is really you know the play here. And so the importance of just staying physically fit and healthy is a key part. And I know w you know, we're talking about finances and we're talking about career, and we're talking about retirement, but it is an often ignored part of the conversation and I think it's a critical part of it. And you mentioned that as part of, you know, the fitness, the the the the test that you need to do run through. Can you speak to just Your view on just longevity and and the fact that you know just taking care of our fitness is so important and and that is also a critical element in making sure that we live well longer.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

You nailed it. That is that is exactly it. Because when someone will come up to me and say it's like what is the number one financial tip you would give somebody um in order to you know feel like they are financially fit or they're prepared for their final a secure financial future, which is sort of my mission is to help people do that. The number one thing I say is to stay healthy, pay attention to your health. The sooner you can start in your 40s, start paying attention in your 50s, please pay attention in your 60s. Are you kidding me? You haven't, you know, you have got to do that because this is why you know it your biggest cost out of your budget uh as you age is going to be your medical cost, is going to be your out-of-pocket medical cost. And people don't recognize that. They think, oh, Medicare is going to cover things when I'm over 65. Not so. And and and it really uh Fidelity runs a number, and and I may have been slightly off on this, they do it every year, but it's something like out-of-pocket is maybe $175,000 for somebody who retires at 65. But it can be far more than that because that number does not include assisted care. And we all know that is wildly expensive and not covered by any kind of insurance unless you have long-term care insurance. So these um end-of-life costs are crippling to people. And if you can stay healthy, you can stave off these kind of medical bills that are gonna like be dream killers. Um, and so I think, yeah, be a smart investor, pay attention to your budget, all of those great things. But if you can pay attention to your health, you're gonna be thanking yourself down the road.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Absolutely, absolutely well said, and um so I know that you know, to wrap this up, you've written a number of books, and and so what I want to do is I want you to walk people through just the highlight of you know what each book is and and what you are trying to accomplish with it, and then where they can find it. And then finally, you know, where can we follow your work? You know, um, you know, where can we go? The one place we can go to follow your work.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Well, I can't remember all the books. There are like 14 of them, but I'm gonna just mention the last couple.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Uh, retirement bites is one that came out in 20 uh late 2025, which is uh retirement guide, financial guide for Gen Xers, who the first Gen Xer turned 60 last year. Uh, the youngest is 45 this year, so 45 and 61 this year. Um, this is like a really when you talk about that sandwich generation, here we go, you know. So that title is sort of a riff-off of reality bites, which was the movie for Gen Xers who were, you know, like freaking out about becoming adults. This is the anxiety of facing retirement. And so this book is so fun, and it just it's positive, it's upbeat. It's like you got this. This is what you need to know. So I love that book, and it's really is Gen X, but it could be younger boomers, it could be uh, you know, millennials, everyone's gonna learn from it, but it looks at that generation that really was the first generation to have to deal with 401ks and do it, uh do-it-yourself retirement uh planning. The second, the next book is uh the book I did right before that is In Control at 50 Plus. And that book looks at the sort of the work world coming out of the pandemic. So I identified the five big trends, which we've talked about here on uh today is career transition really just exploded coming out of the pandemic. People of all ages shifting from doing one thing to doing something different because they had the time to do that inner soul search about okay, the world might be ending here. You know, what is it? What is it do I really want to do with my life? Am I doing the right thing? So, career transition, online learning exploded. Um, the whole idea of entrepreneurship took off, you know, starting your own business. More people over 45 have started businesses than younger people. And so, and it looked at remote work, just again, we talked about coming out of the pandemic, this became a big deal. Contract work, which is an area that is critical uh many for many people who want to keep building work into their life as they live longer. Contract that's where it is, and more and more contract positions. Sure, employers love it because they don't have to pay benefits, but there are more opportunities than ever. And it just takes a little hunting, a little searching. That in control at 50 plus, I love that. Another book uh that I enjoyed. Now we you mentioned pajama jobs, that's fun. That's looking at remote jobs and and um and how to how to go get one and how which what are some fun ones to do, which lends them, which ones lend themselves to remote work. But uh the other one is never too old to get rich. I wrote about entrepreneurship, and that's about I profiled some really cool entrepreneurs in all different spaces, and looking at people, you know, 45, 50, up, mostly 45 and up, who started new ventures at this stage in their life. And and I, you know, I talk about like how'd you do it? Why'd you do it? What role did money play? What advice can you give other people? And and it's a book, okay. I'll say I'm not necessarily saying everyone's gonna get mega rich. I'm not saying these are starting the next apple. We're talking about micro businesses for the most part, but these are things that you get rich because you just love the work you're doing and you're doing your own thing, you're your own boss, and we all know you certainly know this too. It that's where it all that that makes the world a happy place.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And where can we go to follow your work?

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Oh, thank you. Carrie Hannon.com. So it's K-E-R-R-Y-H-A-N-N-O-N.com. I'm on LinkedIn. If you search for Carrie Hannon, you'll find me. And Yahoo Finance is where I write columns right now. You'll find uh if you go search my name, Carrie Hannon and Yahoo Finance, they'll pop up a list of I do a couple a week actually right now. So all kinds of subjects, everything from you know, um work and jobs to retirement, social security, Medicare, and some travel.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Awesome, awesome. Well, Carrie, it's been a great you know, conversation with you today. I've learned a lot personally. There's a lot of things I need to go back and and and research, but no, you give us a lot to think about. Uh, so I appreciate you being here today. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Well, thank you. And I will say one other quick thing. Just believe in yourself. You know, it's your it's your journey, no one's gonna do it right. You're not there's no right or wrong, just just take that first step.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Take good care.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Yeah, and to our listeners, thank you for spending part of your day with us. If you found today's conversation insightful, I would encourage you to subscribe to the Retirement Navigator podcast so that you don't miss future episodes. You can also find more information on our website at benefitsinsider.co. And if you are looking for more connection, if you want to take this conversation even further, join my private community on the school platform. It's called the Next Chapter Community, where I go deeper and you get access to ask me questions and gain information and our library of resources that we have available to you for being a member. Until the next episode, I'm gonna put every link I have talked about in the description to this uh podcast episode, and I'm looking forward to seeing you on the next episode of our podcast. Thank you for joining.