SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Retirement Navigator, the podcast for adults 55 and above who are ready to make their next chapter their best one. I am your host, Kwame Kwade, co-founder of Next Chapter Media and adjunct professor of finance at Johns Hopkins University, Kerry Business School. Joining me today is Michelle Kernau. Michelle is the Senior Vice President of Sales and Brand at Asbury Communities, bringing over 20 years of experience driving growth, building high performance teams, and leading strategic initiatives. She oversees sales leadership, performance analytics, CRM strategy, and integrated branding efforts that support organizational success. Michelle is known for creating data-driven, customer-focused sales cultures and developing playbooks that elevate team performance. Her leadership in brand strategy and public relations has helped drive occupancy and revenue growth while positioning her organization as a mission-driven leader in the industry. Before transitioning to Senior Living, Michelle spent over a decade with the New Jersey sharing network, building hospital partnerships, and advancing public health initiatives. Michelle, it's a pleasure to have you on the Retirement Navigator podcast. I'm looking forward to this conversation with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

So let's get started with your journey. Um what you know, you've been, you know, a leading executive in the you know senior living community, focused on sales and branding. What drew you to this industry and what has kept you in it?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Sure. Um, I have an interesting path into senior living. So I worked in organ and tissue transplant for over a decade. And when I was transitioning out of that, it was really important for me to be able to stay in a space where I was able to support some of our most vulnerable population. And the natural progression into senior living really helped me kind of find my niche and my home. What makes me stay in it is just that I get to make a huge impact on how our older adults live their best lives for, you know, the tail end of their journey.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Right, right. And I mean, obviously, there's a lot that is going happening in terms of change and transformation in the industry. Um since you started, what have you observed in just in terms of change that have happened, let's say in the last decade? And then I want to look into the future next. But so far, what have you seen as change that people are not paying attention to or are not necessarily aware has been happening based on misconception or perception of the industry?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I think that we are still fighting the battle to beat the myth that senior living is all about nursing homes. And so over the last 10 years, we've seen some definite changes in the way we speak about the industry, in a way, in the way we market our organizations and our offerings, but also constantly pushing the needle that what our older adults want and need doesn't start when they need skilled nursing care.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So let's let's let's continue with that. What do you so when does this start? You know, because a lot of people wait until there is a problem. And then it's like, oh, but they have very limited information at that point to make a decision. Where do you think, you know, the conversation starts for older adults when it comes to that new next stage of their life?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I think we're seeing a change there because we have more sophisticated searchers now. And you have the generation, the what's known as the sandwich generation, where you have the adult influencer children who still have young kids at home, who have older adults that they may be looking, you know, what are their care needs going to be moving forward? They're smarter about their search, so they're starting those conversations earlier. And the goal is always to get them to start searching before they have some catastrophic event, because then their choices are limited and they don't get to experience and benefit from all the offerings that the communities do have.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Right. And and I mean, I'm a market, I mean I'm from a marketing background, and you know, you mentioned the sandwich generation. I'm actually hosting a conference um this um October in Baltimore, a health and wellness conference for entrepreneurs. And one of the topics we're talking about is the sandwich generation. I want you to talk a little bit about that because that is a very unique thing right now, more so because you know, parents are living longer. Um, and then you have this generation that is caught in the middle where they they maybe have, you know, kids that are still school age, and then they have adult parents that they need to take care of. Can you speak a little bit about how you guys are approaching the sandwich generation when it comes to you know the service that you offer and how you're speaking to them?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Sure. So I think it starts with your targeted marketing, right? It starts from the very first touch that people have when they're searching. And that in today's day and age is on your website, right? It's all about your digital marketing and targeting that. Are you are you in a market where you're targeting the adult influencer, or are you in a market where you're targeting the prospect themselves? And really making sure that you're getting your messaging and your brand across in an impactful, honest, and transparent way so that people feel comfortable coming to the table to have that conversation with you.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Right. And is there a difference between targeting, you know, speaking directly and how you target the prospect versus targeting the adult influencer? What would you do? Absolutely. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Absolutely. When we're talking, when we're looking to target the prospect, you're really talking about meeting their psychosocial needs and what do they want out of their day? What does their day currently look like? What are they hoping that their that their day would look like? Putting aside that um emotional connection to maybe the home that they've lived in for 40 years and all of those memories. When you're talking to the adult children, you're really trying to unpack the concept of what does care look like? For instance, adult children typically think of senior living as a safety net. I want my parents to be safe. But when we talk to the prospects themselves, safety doesn't cross their mind because they they're looking for well-being and connection and interaction with other older adults. They're looking for things that feed their um emotional cup and give them purpose. To them, when you get to the point of talking about safety, you're you're almost too far past the point for them to be open to the conversation because then it's an immediate need.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Right, right, right, right. And and in a way, I mean, um the safety part for the adult children, kind of it's more of like, you know, it will be my responsibility if I don't find a safe place for my parents, you know what I mean? And so safety is the first thing that comes to mind when the parents themselves, and I've had other people from the industry or my podcast talk about that, and it's a very unique um, I don't want to say difference, but it's also like what each side is looking at and how you're targeting, yeah. So, and I want to go further and talk about, you know, you mentioned in the beginning that there's these misconceptions about senior living, and that, you know, it is a nursing home or etc. What would you say to people right now that you know about what the options are for senior living today, if they are beginning that journey of looking at where either they want to help their parents make a decision, or for my audience who are, you know, age 60 and above, if they are looking themselves, what would you like to tell them about the options available for senior living?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

I would encourage them to do as much research as possible. You have everything from a life plan continuing care community where you start early in your retirement journey and can stay the entire duration of the continuum of care that you may need. You have independent standalone rental options for independent living, for assisted living, for memory care and memory support. And they all offer different things and bring different value to whatever stage in the journey that you're at. And so there's so many options. There's also differentiating options between different organizations, right? And so what's most important to you or what's most important to the person that you care for? If it's my mom is turning 70 and she plays pickleball every day, well then you want to find a space where she can still play pickleball every day and actually be surrounded by other people who might even be a little bit more competitive and want to raise the game. Um, but if that's not something they're interested in, you want to find the space and the niche that really offers what is most important to both your loved one and to yourself. Obviously, there's pricing involved there, so you want to make sure that you do all of the research about what I can afford. Most people automatically go to, I can't afford that. And that's just not true in many, many spaces. I think that there's a lot more to be gained about having really transparent financial conversations so that they can plan well. And I think people would be very surprised by how long they can sustain and afford really quality senior care.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Huh. And you talked about rental opportunities in independent living. Can you speak a little bit about that? Because that's not something I've heard talked about a lot. Um, when people think about, you know, people understand when you go to an assisted living, okay, you're gonna pay a monthly, you know, but independent living rental opportunities, I don't think it's talked about a lot. So can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Sure. I mean, an independent living rental opportunity is the same as an assisted living opportunity in the fact that you might pay a small community fee and then you pay your monthly service fee. And included in that monthly service fee is your room and board, right? Like you would for any apartment living complex. Um, but they also offer all of the engagement that you would get in a community setting, right? So you have other older adults, you have, you know, um life enrichment opportunities, you have well-being opportunities. They also usually have some sort of connection to a strong healthcare system so that your needs can be met in that way as well. It's the difference between downsizing from your home that you've been in for maybe decades to a regular apartment where you're still have the opportunity to be isolated. Maybe you're living among intergenerational age groups, and it's it's not the same as moving into, I don't know, a cruise ship that's parked in a community parking lot where you have all the offerings of joy and engagement that you would not otherwise get.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Right, right. No, that makes sense. Now let's talk about Ashbury um specifically. What do you guys offer? What makes you guys different? Um and then we'll go from there because I'm also interested in exploring, you know, the foundation. I also saw um the connection, brain health. Um so I want to I want to get into all that, but first give us a lay of the land. Who are you guys? What do you offer? Who do you help?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Sure. So Asberry Communities is coming up on our one, we are in our 100th year. So um August will be 100 years that we have been in service in an operation of caring for older adults. Um, most of our portfolio is that life plan continuing care retirement community offering, which means we, you know, people come in at the very beginning of their journey, they start in independent living, and they have the security that they can always be offered the level of care that they need as they age and as their health progresses. Um, we do have a few communities that are rental opportunities. Um, so we do have multiple different options for people that are searching, which also means that we're really able to give expert advice and guidance on what might be the best fit for someone who's searching. Um, our differentiators, we are a not-for-profit organization. Um, we are mission-based. Um, it's all about taking care of the residents and their families and our associates, um, which really makes a difference in happy associates, happy residents, right? Longevity of employment, longevity of residence stay. Um, so we're a very special culture, and it's a really great organization to work for. It's a great place to work, it's a great place to live.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

So a lot of people talk about culture, you know, and it it can be a buzzword. And and the fact that you guys are a nonprofit also is a it's a strong differentiator. Talk a little bit about the culture for somebody that's listening, you know, and is hearing, you know, Asbury for the first time. What about the culture that you want to emphasize for them right now?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Sure. I mean, at Asbury, we're all about taking care of our people so that they can take care of others. Um, and we also we feel strongly about our culture initiative, which is called Connected and Belonging. And for us, every single person who lives and works at Asbury has a place. They belong. And so we drive that message home in all that we do so that people feel very comfortable coming to work, coming to live, um, and that there's a space for them to be and to be their authentic self.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

And where do you guys have locations?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

We have locations in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Delaware.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Okay. And and what so you say you guys offer us, you know, assisted, you know, independent living. What are the gamut of offerings do you guys, you know? Are you slipped or nuts? Like what can people look for if they're coming to you?

SPEAKER_00 14:35

So if they're coming to us at one of our continuing care retirement communities, it goes from the beginning of independent living all the way through skilled nursing. So that includes assisted living, memory support, skilled nursing, and of course the independent living option. Um, and then our rental options offer personal care, assisted living, memory care. Um, and that's so we really do run the gamut for sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Okay. And I when I was researching, looking on your website, I saw something about the connection brain health, which is a very unique thing. So can you speak a little bit on what that is?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Sure. So we have an amazing team of people who work in our well-being department. Um, they're led by uh Dr. Sue Paul, who is an expert in brain health. And she has been working through what we like to the brain health revolution. It's not even an evolution. Everybody talks about memory care, right? And they think about residents who have maybe end stage or early onset dementia. The Connections program was started to catch cognitive health early and to improve it and enhance upon it early by movement and complex movement and um exercises to really make sure that people can not only maintain their cognitive function, but to enhance it. And it's an incredible program that we offer at all of our campuses. Um, we have a dedicated brain health coach. Um, and as the as the program evolves, there's more and more offerings that we'll be able to bring to life, which is really, really exciting. We've seen great success in the people who participate in that program. So we start with our independent living residents, our our youngest, most active, most mobile residents who you don't think of when you think of brain health and memory support. Um, we start early so that they get to live their best life for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah. No, and um talking about best life as long as possible, um, there is a lot that is happening in in terms of change in senior living. And and based on what you see in conferences you've attended recently, you know, what are some of the things that you are excited about in senior living as you look into the future?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

What I'm most excited about is the opportunity for senior living organizations to really hone in on what offerings we have that enhance their the best living possible, right? We're we're really seeing a movement from care to life enrichment and well-being enrichment and offering the best services possible early on. And you're just you're seeing more sophisticated searchers looking early for the things that are important for them. And it really is more about how do you live and not necessarily what apartment do you live in or what care are you getting.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Right. So why is that important? Why why why is that important for your industry to care about that?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I think it's really important for our industry because you hear a lot, you've heard a lot for decades about the silver tsunami, right? The the boomers coming into the market. People's evaluations of what is important to themselves has changed. And they look at the opportunity to just stay in their home and age in place, and that may be their preference. Um, you know, I've been in this home for 30 years, all of my memories are here, I feel safe here. Um, I don't want to give away my money to go live somewhere else. I can pay somebody to come in and care for me. That really is the biggest competitor that we have. So showing people to look through the windshield and not the rearview mirror to make sure that they understand that they're not giving something up, they're gaining so much, and showing them sometimes the risk of staying at home, right? That isolation is very is a very big risk. We saw that all through COVID. We saw how people, you know, still now years out of the COVID pandemic, looking at what negative impact that isolation had on pe on everyone, but really on our older adults as well. So it's being able to hone in on what we can offer that brings value and purpose as well as safety and care and opportunity to live better.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Right, right, right. And you talked about, you know, honing it. That is, in fact, you know, the competition, which is like people deciding whether they want to stay home because, you know, aging plays, but aging place can also be very expensive. Um and so the cost of care and the cost of it all, I want to dig a little bit deeper into the financial side of things, you know, like a lot of people think that they cannot afford, you know, to move out of their house. And they think it's much cheaper to just stay. But when conditions, you know, other than loneliness and other things, when conditions worsen, the cost of care at home then gets very expensive. So what are they, you know, can you talk a little bit about the financial side of things and how people should be thinking about the financial affordability of moving out of the home and going to um a community like yours?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Sure. I think that I think it's twofold. I think it's financial. I also think that it's the reality of reliability. So when you have care that you're paying for that comes into the home, you are beholden to that person's schedule, you know, um, whether or not they have a reliable vehicle, whether or not they have reliable child care. Um, and you're paying upwards of 30, sometimes$35. In some markets,$40 an hour. And so when you're sitting down to do your budget for what you can afford for care, most people are shocked by the fact that when their health needs advance, that I mean, the concept of 24-hour care at home is exorbitant. And if they don't show up, who's caring for mom or dad? Right. Who's doing that? Who does that fall on? So then what is the responsibility of the adult child or adult caregiver at home? You know, what if we talked before about the sandwich generation? If I have young school age children at home, I might not be able to get up in the middle of the night and run to mom's house to care for her if a caregiver has an emergency and can't come. And and so the cost of that, do I have to pay a babysitter? Do I have to miss days of work um so that I can care for mom? Like what does that look like? So we go through all of the financial ramifications of not only how much are you paying for a caregiver, but what happens if you have to pay outside of that cost um to make sure that you have what you need.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Right, right. And the back to the sandwich generation, you know, if if somebody is listening right now, you know. And they're thinking about you know exploring this conversation with their parents, or and I I had I had a guest on recently who who kind of walked us through like even how to approach that conversation. But what I wanted to focus on today is where do you begin? If you are part of the sandwich generation and you're listening to this, like you know what, I've been thinking about this. This is some of my concerns about mom or dad being home by themselves. Um how should they approach their own research in order to equip themselves with the information they need to be able to help their parents in this process?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

So if I hear you right, you're asking about what research do they do on the front end.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I would say the research that they need to do on the front end starts with the conversation with their parent. And I think that it's a it's an information-seeking conversation, not a I'm telling you what you need conversation. Really asking some of the questions to their parents about how do you feel like your day is going? What is getting harder for you, if anything, at home? If you did have help, what would you like that to look like? Um, what do you feel like is missing? And what are what are your fears about the next 10 years? Not senior living, but just what are your fears about the next 10 years? And once they have some of that information, which doesn't feel threatening to their adult parent, it's just information seeking, then they can really start researching different communities and different options so that they can answer some of those needs that mom or dad shared with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

That's where it starts. If you just start on the internet and you're just searching for pricing, and don't start searching for pricing. If you're only searching for pricing, you're gonna miss out on so much information that brings value to that conversation. I am not by any means saying that pricing is not important, of course it is, right? But that shouldn't be where you start.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

You should start with what do my parents want? What is important to them? What are they afraid of? What am I afraid of? And then start your search.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

What am I afraid of? That's that's a really, really good point. Because that's also in baked in there, is our own fears about you know about our parents. Yeah. So um, I know you guys have a foundation. Um, and what is that foundation, what does the foundation do? Who does it support? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

I love talking about our foundation. Um, so we are just our foundation is just wrapping up their everyday exceptional campaign, which has been a campaign to raise$60 million. Um, and I can't wait for them to roll out the results of that. They've been working so hard. Our foundation is funded by philanthropy from our residents. So our donors are our residents, and we don't seek philanthropic um funds from other places. So our donors give because we are able to connect their passions with their philanthropic efforts, and so we have multiple different vehicles and pathways for them to do that. Um, a large portion of our donors give to our unrestricted campaigns, which goes predominantly for benevolent care. And what that means is that if a resident moves in to Asbury in our continuum care, continuing care community, if they move in with us and over the course of their stay, they run out of funds through no fault of their own. The benevolent care process is that they can apply, and if they qualify for benevolent care, then there's a supplementation of their monthly fees so that they can stay on campus. There's no like, oh, you're out of money, you have to go. Um, so there's a large process involved in that, and with the application, it's not guaranteed for anyone, but it's an opportunity for us to be able to serve our residents who've been with us, you know, and trusted us and been a part of our experience for many years to offer them the opportunity to stay where they're comfortable and get the care that they need as they advance in their age. Right. Um, the foundation also supports a huge um opportunity for associate scholarships. Our residents feel strongly that they want our associates to have the opportunity to further their education and better their own opportunities. So they give a lot to that particular avenue of philanthropy. They do things like they fund dog parks, right? It's if it's something I'm passionate about, I want I can designate my um funds to go to a passion project. That's how the first Connections Brain Health Center was built. Um, it was built with the support of philanthropic efforts from our resident donors to really expand on that program. Um, and that's how it began. So there are a lot of opportunities for our residents to give back to the communities that they live in, give back to the associates who serve them. Um, it gives them purpose and it allows them to really align their passions.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah. No, that's that's awesome. And um the, you know, this is the fact that you guys are a nonprofit also is a very interesting dynamic in that, you know. So to have a nonprofit and then have a foundation supported by by residents, it's it's a really, really powerful differentiator. And and also, I mean, just the the good that it does in the community, you know, that people are happy in the community enough that they want to support something like that uh foundation is really powerful. Um, the last thing I want to get into is technology. I read a quote, I read a quote that um you had talked about, uh I think it's from um leading age, and it was about technology, and it says um, you know, the assumption that older adults don't like tech, don't use it, or are afraid of it, or don't understand it is not true. So I felt like you were heading somewhere with that, and it probably based on your insights about how technology is changing care, technology is you know, how seeing it, older adults are interacting with technology. So I want you to just talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

I could talk about this four days. I don't know with that. So part of Asbury's strategic blueprint is advancing in innovation and technology. Okay, and there's many reasons behind that, but from the resident perspective, you know, technology is ever changing, and there are so many opportunities for technology to make life easier and better, safer. Um, and people assume that older adults just are adverse to it, that they uh, you know, they are not good on computers or they're not good with the internet. Well, that may be true, but just because someone's not good on a computer doesn't mean that they're adverse to technology. Um we talk a lot about, we have a collaboration with HTC, the Age Tech Collaborative through AARP, where we have a smart lab on our Asbury Methodist Village campus where we have an entire apartment that has multiple different startup technology options. Our residents are their use case. So they go in and they test this technology and they tell us what's great about it or what maybe needs to be improved upon. Um, and then we talk through how we can make that available to the residents in the communities. What are the options for them from a technological perspective? What are the cost prohibitations? What are, you know, what's most important to them when they try out the technology? Um, I'll give you an example. We came across a technology through a company called On Screen, where you can use an AI-generated concierge to answer some of the residents' questions. So let's say a resident, it's nine o'clock at night and they call the front desk and they're looking for, hey, I need some support with my cable, or I need some, I have a question about dining, whatever it is. Joy, who is our AI concierge, can answer those questions for them. Um, it takes some of the pressure off the resident who maybe after hours doesn't have a concierge overnight. Um, but it's also an opportunity for them to just grab the knowledge quickly, pick up the phone, call, ask the question, get what they need. Um, then there's even more opportunities with technology when it comes to care, keeping people safe, um, opportunities to really mitigate falls, to predict falls, to prevent falls, to track falls, um, all different opportunities to use technologies to do that. Um, we had one startup that we were working with through the Age Tech Collaborative, and it was a ring. You know, everybody wears a wearable now, whether it's like their Apple Watch or the Aura ring, whatever it is. And the you wear the ring and you click a button on the ring and it can turn the lights on and off. Think about being in bed and having to get up to use the restroom in the middle of the night. And instead of having to fumble around to turn lights on, which could potentially be a risk to fall, you just click the ring and the lights turn on. It's something as simple as that. So when we talk about technology, it's not necessarily some scary, you know, rosy Jetson robot that's gonna come and vacuum your floors or whatever that is. It can be something as simple as a ring that makes your life easier. And so as long as the technology is easy for the older adults to use and as long as they find value in its use, they will use it. Right. They will use it and they and they do like it. And so it it is definitely a myth that they're just adverse.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Right. No, no, that's that's that's very insightful. Um is there anything I haven't asked you yet that you want to share with my audience about you know your you know your company, about who you help, about what what they can look forward to by being a part of your community?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I think that the thing that people gain the most by becoming residents at an Asbury community is just the opportunity to have great purpose, to make an impact every day on the community that you live at, to bond with other residents, make friends who have similar passions to you, um, and to really just have the opportunity to maintain your independence for as long as you want to. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's something that people forget, right? Making a move into any senior living um community does not take away your independence, it offers you different avenues and pathways to expand upon your independence with whatever needs you might have.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Right. No, well said. Um, how can people reach you guys?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Sure. Um, the easiest way to reach us is to go to our website, um, www.asberry.org. Um, you can start all of your searching there. Um you can also visit us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, even TikTok. We even have TikTok. Um, but there's all sorts of information that you can start your search on the website, and that will navigate you to whatever community geographically or offering-wise that you're looking for.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Awesome. Michelle, this has been a very insightful conversation, and I'm and and I really want to thank you for making the time to share this with our audience. Uh, thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

And to our listeners, thank you for joining me on this insightful conversation with Michelle. I hope you found value in it as much as I did. And if you want to continue the conversation, consider subscribing to our podcast. Wherever you listen to your podcast, if you're watching this on YouTube, hit the subscribe button. And I want to invite you, if you want to continue this conversation with me and go deeper on some of these topics, I want to invite you to our next chapter community. It's on the school platform. This is a membership community that we created that gives you access not only to me to ask your questions and get further insights on some of these topics that we've been talking about, but to be in a group of older adults who are on the same journey as you, trying to make the next chapter their best one. And remember, your next chapter is not the end, it's the beginning of an exciting period that you can navigate with confidence and clarity. Until the next episode, thank you for watching.